Bryson,
you're listening to that music podcast with me. Bryson Tarbet, I'm the music educator and blogger behind that music teacher and that musicteacher.com
Join me as I dive into what it really means to be a music educator. I hope they are able to find a nugget of inspiration each week as I share my favorite ways to create purposeful instruction through active music making along the way, you'll hear from some of my amazing colleagues as they share practical advice that you can apply to your own classrooms. So grab a coffee, sit down, and let's get started.
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This week's podcast is actually such a personal like I'm so excited for this conversation, because Dr Jennifer Whitehead was one of my amazing professors in undergrad, and not only is she just an amazing person and just super great at staging operas and all this fun stuff, but she also did her doctorate with a lot of instruction and a lot of focus on vocal health. So I've been receiving a lot of people like, Hey, I feel vocally tired all the time, especially now, as we're teaching with masks and all that fun stuff, vocal health is so important for all teachers, especially music teachers. So I'm really excited to share this conversation I had with Dr Jennifer Whitehead about how we as teachers can take care of our voice. She goes in to talk about how we as teachers, even if we aren't music teachers, we're professional voice users, and I think that's a really good way to think about it when we're thinking about, you know, prepare, protecting what we what we use to survive and to make money and and to to, you know, to provide for our families. So I think it's a really good conversation that has some practical things as well. Dr Jennifer Whitehead is an associate professor of voice at Ohio Wesley University in Delaware, Ohio. She teaches voice and voice related courses, as well as directing music department stage production. Stage productions. Whitehead is a Columbus, Ohio native and a 2013 graduate of the Ohio State University with a doctorate of Musical Arts in voice and singing health. She has appeared in both staged and concert works in central Ohio, and has also been extensively involved with the opera Columbus education and outreach programs. Dr Whitehead is a frequent lecturer on vocal health and practice strategies for singers. She resides in West riverville, Ohio with her husband and daughter, and on a personal note, Dr Whitehead is one of my favorite people, and I cannot wait to have her on the podcast. So I'm gonna stop talking about how wonderful she is, and I'm gonna let her show you how amazing she is and how she just knows vocal health and why it's important for us as educators. Hello everyone, and welcome back to that music podcast. I am extra excited for this episode today. I have the one and only Dr Jennifer Whitehead, who is going to be talking about vocal health today. So, Dr Whitehead, thank you so much for chatting with me. Well, thank you for having me. Bryson. So. Dr Whitehead was actually my professor in college. We did Opera Theater forever. We got stranded on the way back from Europe together. It was wonderful. It was quite the journey. So I'm really actually extra excited for this interview, just because of who I have on the podcast today. We are forever bonded by the New Jersey airport. Oh, 100%
so let's go ahead and dive right in. Will you tell us a little a little bit about yourself, kind of, what is your background in music and education, and then where do you currently teach and what do you do there? Okay, well, I am. I'm a Columbus native. I was born and bred here in central Ohio, and I am a proud graduate of the Ohio State University.
I kind of came to music because it was sort of the family business. My mom was a middle school music teacher. God bless her. My dad was a high school choral conductor. Both of them were public school teachers and just very successful and beloved, and I wasn't pressured to go into music by them, by any means. But I don't know music felt like home, and I just had a sense that I'd always wonder about the road not taken if I didn't pursue music. And so I did that, and I earned degrees in voice and singing health from Ohio State, and I've sung and taught in the Columbus area for about 30 years now, which is kind of crazy.
And before I earned my doctorate in 2013 I was an adjunct professor at several universities around the area, Ashland University, Kenyon College, and I was at Otterbein University.
For years before coming to your alma mater, Bryson of Ohio, Wesleyan University, as a professor in 2014 and at Wesleyan, I teach voice and voice related courses such as voice methods for music education majors, and I also stage scenes and teach a musical theater history course.
How exciting. I don't know if I knew that your mom was a middle school teacher.
Oh, yeah. I mean, God bless her. Series,
so other than teaching what's something that you're really passionate about and that brings joy in your life? Oh, I have a lot of things, but one thing I really enjoy doing is writing.
I do have a book that I have submitted for publication, and I'm hoping to get published in the next year. It's actually a spin off of my doctoral document, which is how to practice, because I found that this was a real need among students and even professional singers that we just don't always know how to lay out our practice, so I've written what I hope will be a helpful manual on that. So yeah, I love writing. I love I really enjoy musical theater, that's a interest of mine.
And I just love spending time with my family and my dog and just people in general. I enjoy people
I think we both know that I had some struggles in college with practicing, so I might have to take a look at that book. When it gets published. I will give you a complimentary copy, right? I'm gonna hold you to that you do it all right, let's dive in. So what led you to pursue your music degrees? And you talked about a little bit, but then can you also kind of talk about how you ended up in your DMA track, and why you decided to emphasize with kind of a little bit more emphasis in the vocal health side of things? Sure. Um, well, I came to my DMA really kind of late in life to start a doctorate. I was 42 when I started,
and I just think I was kind of in a little bit of a midlife slump, something that you'll learn about someday.
I just kind of needed a challenge. I had been a stay at home mom for a while, just teaching very part time while my daughter was a preschooler, and she was in first grade at this point, and I was ready to take on something new and the doctor, it seemed like a very logical option. It would enable me to seek a tenure track college job,
and I don't know it was just a challenge that I was really interested in for a lot of reasons. It was going to provide opportunities to sing and further develop my voice
and just build on the Masters I had earned
20 years earlier.
And as far as singing health in a doctorate, as with most degrees, you always have a certain number of courses you have to take. But there is also room for an area of interest. And at the time, OSU was pioneering their singing health program. It was one of just a few in the country at the time. I'm sure there are more now, because it's it's very popular, but it's a collaboration basically between the voice department in the speech and hearing and laryngology departments of medicine. So you take a deep dive into vocal anatomy and function and vocal disorders, vocal therapy options, and you do clinical and surgical observations
with OSU speech pathologists and laryngologists. So it was a great opportunity to, you know, literally, be taught about the voice by voice surgeons, and I had experienced my own vocal struggles when I began teaching full time shortly after my master's degree, so it really was an area of real interest for me, and it just seemed like too great of an opportunity not to pursue. So I did that.
Does that does that sounds like a wonderful program, being able to see things from, like the clinical side of things, rather than just, you know what? This is what we do in our lessons. This is what we do in our, you know, in our choral settings. But you know, this is what happens medically. This is, these are some of the things you can run into and kind of having that background information, I'm sure, has been really helpful now, especially as you are working with with singers and working with those that might not necessarily know how to use their instrument safely. Oh, absolutely, it was. It was so valuable. It made a lot of the things that we do as voice teachers just because we've learned to do them, and, you know, tips and tricks that get passed down from our teachers as we take lessons. It made so many of those things make sense from a physiological and anatomical standpoint, and it was just an amazing, you know, experience to be in an OR and watch surgery and realize how amazing the voices but also how delicate the voices.
Is
it was? It was something that I'm really glad I had the opportunity to do,
for sure. I mean, I had my own vocal health issues my first couple of years of teaching, luckily, you know, it ended with, you know, just a scope and saying, Hey, you should probably drink more water and nothing, nothing more than that, thankfully. But unfortunately, this is a real thing with teachers in general, but especially music teachers. Why do you think that there are so many, so many of us that are suffering from vocal fatigue and vocal health issues?
Well, I think that teachers have some very unique demands on their voice.
Anyone who uses their voice professionally, we have to understand, is is truly a professional voice user, I mean, and that isn't limited to just teachers, that could be somebody that works at a call center, or an attorney that's going to court all the time, a foreman in a factory. I mean, there's a lot of a coach,
but teachers have some really special, unique demands on their voices. First of all,
music, teachers are always speaking pretty much to large groups. Okay?
And you're speaking over noise a lot of the time. You know, kids aren't always just super duper compliant. And you're speaking over noise in the room.
You're speaking with performance energy when you teach, especially when you teach music or theater or something like this, where you're demonstrating, you're kind of on stage all day. You're trying to get a certain amount of energy from the group, and that means that sometimes you're giving a tremendous amount of energy yourself.
Often teachers are speaking in dry or dusty or less than ideal environments. You know, especially if you're in an older school building.
We're speaking when we're sick or suffering from allergies, because teachers tend to have a fairly limited number of sick days. And music teachers in particular are always thinking, Oh, I have to prepare for this concert. I have this, this thing coming up
so we don't like to miss school. And frankly, I think teachers kind of, like you were told, I think teachers tend to be under hydrated, partly just because you don't get that many bathroom breaks during the day. It's a real problem. It
is a big problem, so you have to find creative ways to get your water in. So I think all of those things combined to make a really challenging vocal health environment for music teachers, for sure, you brought up a lot of really good points. I mean, I'm thinking it back to my the last couple weeks, you know, my school, the air condition has been out, so we've had fans everywhere, which adds, you know, we're, you were talking louder, and you know, we're teaching in masks. So that's another thing that teachers, you know, we're talking louder. And, like you said, we're kind of on stage all day. We're talking all day, and it's not just like normal conversations. Obviously, are a lot of the time, especially with everybody's social distance. Now, we're addressing a large group over a large area of space, so especially those that don't really know how to use their voice safely, it can be really easy to have that vocal fatigue kind of take over to where we get bigger problems. You know, where you lose your voice, where you might develop any, any number of things in your vocal folds that are more serious than just vocal fatigue. When it comes to vocal fatigue, I know that there's always going to be a little bit of vocal fatigue. That's just part of being a person, but at what point does it become an actual vocal injury? What are some of the signs that we should be looking for and kind of signs that we should be concerned about? Sure, well, that's a good question. I think before we talk about that, I think we have to talk about how we injure our voice. Okay, we we talked about, just a second ago, some of the conditions and some of the factors that can lead to vocal injury. But basically, we injure our voice by doing one of four things. We either speak at a wrong pitch, we speak at a wrong volume, we speak at a wrong rate, or we speak for a wrong duration. So in other words, we're either pitching our voice too high or too low. We are probably in a teacher's in the case of a teacher, probably speaking too loudly.
We probably speak too quickly without taking breaths in between our phrases, and we're just speaking for a darn long time throughout the day. I mean, you're you're teaching all day long, sometimes with very few breaks.
But I would say some of the things that should send you to maybe seek help and get a scope, a vocal scope, which we can talk a little bit more about here in a second, would be constant core.
Hoarseness that is not traceable to illness. I mean, obviously, if you have the sinus infection from hell or bronchitis and you've been coughing and your voice is hoarse, you know why your voice is hoarse? It's because you've been sick. It's virus. But if you're just hoarse for no real reason that you can't trace to a cold or an allergy,
that might be a reason to seek some medical help. If your voice is constantly fatigued, different than what you were describing a minute ago, just part of the fatigue of living and teaching, but if you just feel like you're in a state of constant vocal fatigue and weakness,
if you feel like you can't speak very loudly, like you're you just the the power is gone out of your voice.
If you find that you have consistent breathiness in your own singing that you can't seem to mitigate,
or if you have a scratchy itchy throat, and certainly two big indicators, is if you're having significant pain in the laryngeal area
that, again, is not traced to to sickness, you just have pain, or what we call Globus, which is the sense of something in your throat, like you feel like you've got a golf ball stuck in your throat and you just can't get rid of it. Any of those things that last for two to three weeks should probably send you in for a vocal exam.
Okay, those are some good kind of things to look out for. And I think a lot of what you just said can be summed down to, if you can't trace it to being sick and it's sticking around, we should probably seek a second, seek another opinion, you know, other than just ourselves. So let's kind of talk. You said, you know, if you have those things, it might be worth getting a vocal console. What? What does that look like? How do you start it? And what would actually, would it look like in the clinical setting? Oh, sure. Well, depending on your insurance, you may have to see your primary care physician first. Some insurances require you to see your GP before you see a specialist. Some don't,
but in that case, you would just talk to your primary care doctor and tell them that you're a professional voice user, you're having this issue and that you would like to see a laryngologist for a vocal scope. Now it's important to note that for voice disorders, we really want to see a voice specialist, if at all possible. And most people think an ENT and ear, nose, throat, Doctor is a laryngologist. That is actually not true. Laryngology is a specialty within a specialty, right? So an ENT is a specialist in the ear, nose and throat, but a laryngologist is a specialist in the voice, the throat, the diseases of the larynx and the surrounding areas. So
these kinds of professionals are usually linked to a university hospital. Often, I should say, linked to a university hospital. I will say, for Ohio listeners, Ohio State University has one of the best programs in the nation, some really top quality laryngeal care, and you would call make an appointment. Little tip, usually, if you will, tell them that you're a singer or professional voice user, these very busy clinics can usually get you in a little sooner,
and what will typically happen is you'll see a speech pathologist first. This is a professional, usually with at least a master's degree, that is trained to diagnose and
offer therapy for various vocal problems, and they will likely scope you. That's a scary word. It's not as scary as it sounds when you had your scope breaks. And what, what kind did you have? Did they go through your mouth or your nose? They went through the nose. And
how was that? I actually just had this conversation with someone who has to get a scope. And as a lot of us have had covid tests lately, I would likely akin it to kind of a covid test, that kind of feeling, but you're also numbed. It's just, it's not, I was not wonderful. I would never do that on purpose, but, like, I personally, didn't find it painful. It was just a little irritating. Yeah, it's not a day at Disney, but it's also not like terrible and painful and long. Sometimes, if you can take it, they will give you a scope through the mouth, which is, this sounds horrible, but it's really not that bad, a long, thin rod that they insert into your mouth with little camera on the end. And if you can keep the roof of your mouth.
Away from it and keep your tongue down and not gag.
That's laryngologists and pathologists like that, because they can see really close. It's a little closer to the folds. A lot of us, myself included, if you're a Gagger, forget it. You got to go through your nose, and like you said, they numb you up. They insert a small, flexible tube with a camera on the end. It's called a chip on the tip, camera that goes through your nose, and they look down at your vocal cords. And while they're in there, the pathologist will probably have you make some noise, like maybe some humming, maybe some sirens, some slides up and down, maybe even have you do a little bit of singing, and they're usually not in there for more than a minute, usually less. And then they'll talk with you about what they found. They'll share their findings with the doctor. Sometimes you'll see the doctor at the same appointment, sometimes not sometimes just the pathologist, who will consult with the doctor, and they will agree on a treatment for you, which could be medication, which could be therapy, which could be some combination of the two.
In some cases it could involve surgery, but that's why it's really important not to be afraid to go when you have something wrong, because the more you put it off, the more likely you are to incur a more serious diagnosis. And that's why that two to three week benchmark is really good, I will say, in my years of teaching and singing and in observations in clinical and surgical settings,
a very small
issue, pathology problem can make for a really irritated voice. So the fact that you are having pain or the fact that you are having hoarseness does not necessarily mean that you have huge vocal nodules or something like that. You might just have, for instance, a little bit of acid reflux. A lot of us deal with that, and that causes redness and swelling in your vocal cords, and that is treatable with some actually over the counter medication that you can you can even just go to CVS and get or they can give it to you in prescription strength through your doctor's office. So I cannot emphasize enough, do not be afraid to go have your voice looked at. You will not be sorry, and it will give you, you know, peace of mind. It will help you know what's going on. In fact, it for really any professional voice user, I would even recommend a baseline scope. Just just go get a scope to see what your healthy cords look like. That's helpful to doctors as well, for voice professionals, because then they have something to compare it to when people come in with a problem. I was just about to bring up that same point. You know, they didn't really find anything particularly nasty on my scope, but I do have that scope for if there ever is any sort of vocal injury I have, they can compare it to that original scope and kind of see how it might have progressed, or kind of things like that as well. So that's a really cool thing. Also. It's just really fascinating to see the instrument that you've been using your entire life that you've never been able to see.
Amazing, isn't it? Yeah, it's absolutely fascinating to be able to, like, wow, that's the thing that, like, Hey, I my college scholarship right there. Like, it's so it's so interesting to see it, because it is one of those things I remember going to, like, blue lake and all the the, you know, the music camps and the band people would be screaming, and US choir people we didn't would never even think of it, because if we we would never hear the end of it, if we were caught screaming, because we don't get to put our instrument down. And I think that's a real thing that we kind of need to remember, is, you know, our instrument, for better or for worse, is with us all the time, and we need to make sure that we're preventing vocal injuries whenever we can. Absolutely. I mean, it really is miraculous, these two tiny, you know, little bands that vibrate together. And you know, it is amazing to see your instrument. It that we all have different voices just because of slightly varying shapes and sizes of our vocal tracts, of the vocal cords themselves. You know, lower voices tend to have thicker chords. Higher voices tend to have thinner chords.
And just to see how they function, just just vibrating together 1000s of times per second, it's, it's mind blowing this tiny instrument. And if I have learned one thing. Through the years of teaching and singing and observing in clinics, I have definitely learned that the voice is very fragile, but it's actually also very resilient. And so that's the good news. If you if you're having vocal struggles, if you go and you get it taken care.
Care of and you start yourself on a path to better vocal health, you can usually turn the tide and correct the problem and be just fine,
for sure. And I think I I can't get over the, how small of an instrument that has such a punch, I can't get over how, how cool of a thing that is. So here's a question that I feel like I know the answer to, but I also know that I don't do it, which is, should music teachers be warming up in the morning? Absolutely. Um, you know you you are, if you are a music teacher, you are a voice professional, and you need to treat your voice as such, we get stuck in the idea that when we're singing, and probably this is true of you, too. Bryson, like, if you have a singing gig, or, you know, you have to do a lot of singing, you're going to warm up, okay?
And a lot of music teachers would be that way. You wouldn't think of not warming up or not warming up your group even before having them sing. And yet we fail to warm ourselves up before our day. And it can make a huge difference to not start cold, because you know, when we when we get into teaching in the morning. I mean, it is Good morning, boys and girls. And it is not,
it is not an easy on ramp. You know, we don't sort of ease into the day right dive right in. You dive right in. And so I think just doing, even just starting with some breathing in the morning, like you can do this in your car on the way to work, just nice Low Breathing exercises, doing some sighs and sirens, just humming and gliding on a hum, or on
that kind of stuff.
I think singing on a hum, singing on an Ooh or an E, just doing simple little five tone scales in an easy range just kind of gets your resonance going.
And I have some stupid phrases that I like to say that I think are really helpful. Would you like to hear them? Bryson, I would love to hear them. I thought you might Okay. Here we go. My mom made me Marry a Millionaire. Mary made me mad. I know they're stupid. I love it. I know my mom married Marv. The common denominator in these is that I'm using an M, a hum to really focus my sound forward. Okay? We talked about how you can hurt yourself when you're speaking at a wrong pitch, right? What we tend to do often is we'll speak down on our vocal fry, especially as we get tired. If I'm working on these resonance exercises, it helps me aim out another great idea I'll show you, Bryson, I'm going to ask you a question that I know the answer to is yes, and I want you to answer me by saying,
Is your name, Bryson,
do you have a fabulous podcast for
speakers, right where you do that? Okay, that's probably the ideal spot for you to be aiming when you speak, okay, awesome. That's a really, really practical way to do that. It's an easy tip, because sometimes we start to think, well, if I speak healthy, that means I'd have to be like some weird opera singer from 1945 and
walking like this, you know? And it's not that at all. It's just speaking at your optimum level. Another good way to gage that that pitch is about the lowest third of your comfortable speaking voice, or, I'm sorry, of your comfortable singing voice, is about where you should be speaking, okay, so not the last three notes that you can burp out, you know, for you as a tenor, probably somewhere between, you know, C and E below middle, C down in there would be kind of right about where you want to speak or Where you say
and then
just continuing that resonance into other phrases, like, whom do you choose? My, oh, my, I cry and decide, oh no, don't go in the snow. These kinds of things. They're great. Warm up for your day. I love that. I can just imagine everyone driving to work right now, doing this with them, with us, and I'm really kind of here for it. So,
totally, totally. So I know we talked a little bit about warm ups, but I know. And then are there certain like, exercises that we could do, like, if we're just, if we're feeling vocal fatigue, just to kind of maybe like, warm down, or just kind of to kind of relax.
Extra voices, other than just warming up in the morning. So
one thing I'll say about fatigue is that, you know people, it's funny when people know you have a background in vocal health, you'll get a lot of people saying, oh, you know, my voice is so tired and I'm having this hoarseness. And what should I do? What can I do? I have a concert coming up, or I I have to teach, or I have to speak at a conference, what should I do? And what they want is for me to say, well, you know, mix Eye of newt with
frogs tongue. And, you know, they want some potion, right? And really the key for vocal fatigue is silence. It's just plain old Shut up.
And I think as far as warming down, that's a great idea. You can, after your teaching day, get in your car and just do some size, kind of from the middle of your voice. Hmm? Voice on down, just sort of some size downward,
maybe
down into your comfortable range, and then is a good time to make up for some of that hydration you didn't do during the day. You know for sure. Yeah, be quiet in the evenings. Be quiet as much as you can on the weekends.
Again, you're a professional voice user. You have to treat your voice differently than an accountant does. You know you can't you can't teach all week and then go out every night to a bar, like, who's doing that? That's teaching all the time. But anyway, talk over noise in a club, go to a football game on the weekend and then feel great about Monday. You know you have to, have to budget your voice. I think budgeting your voice is a really good way to think about it. And just when you're using your voice, making sure that you're using it carefully, and just kind of being aware of how fragile we it is, kind of like we talked about, and kind of listening to your body as well, and listening when you need to talk and when you need to shut up, totally, totally. And you know, Bryson, you know, we're not, we're not very good as teachers about being in touch with our bodies during the school day. Because, let's face it, most of us, I mean, even if you enjoy your job, you're you're still kind of in survival mode, right? You know for sure, yeah, and it's easy to just think about the hour you're in and just getting through my plan for today with this group of kids before the next group comes in. And, you know, you need to kind of tune into yourself. And so some ways that can look, some practical ways that can look for the for the music teacher is,
you know, if, if it's if it's Tuesday and you've got to make it till Friday, and maybe your allergies are acting up, or maybe
you are just you're just plain old tired and your voice is feeling it, you're not going to make it very well to Friday if you don't start budgeting now. So one thing you can do is budget your day a little bit, you know, maybe, for instance, let your groups. If you're a high school choral conductor, and you're used to taking your rehearsal time and you know, you're constantly stopping them and working on things, which is great. Maybe you take your tired day and you say, Okay, today, you know what? I'm just going to see where you are on some of your pieces. I'm going to just let you sing through them. All right? Just let them sing and you be quiet.
Another good thing to do is have sectionals up at the piano, so you're not standing in front of the whole group, talking out to them. Have you know, I think I'm going to work with the Altos right now. Have them come stand around the piano. You work with them right there with you.
You know, if you're an elementary teacher and you work sometimes with instruments. Maybe today's an instrumental day where we're going to play our recorders or whatever, just thinking of creative ways not to use your voice the whole time, the whole time, and also when you are talking to your group, instead of talking over the noise, think of talking under the noise. So if I want to address the tenor in the third row that's talking while I'm talking, I'm not going to yell, Hey Chris, shut up. Stop you know. I'm going to walk over to right in front of kind of where he is, even if he's a couple rows up, and lean in, Chris. Stop talking. Okay. If I want to get my classes attention, I don't have to yell at them all the time. I can clap. I can snap. Finding other ways to
just budget and take care of your voice throughout the day is really important.
Love that, and I'm going to talk directly. Have the elementary music teacher.
Here and say your kids do not need you to sing with them all the time without you.
Praise. Yes, absolutely, we should not be singing for seven and a half hours every single day straight. Let the kids sing without you. No, because you know what one of the worst things you can do for your voice is make what we would just call odd vocal noises, which, let's face it, if you're an adult with a with a really low voice, you're a baritone, and you're trying to teach a class of, you know, little first graders that sing up in a soprano range, and you're constantly trying to sing up there. You know, you're going to get really tired if you're if you're working with the bass section, and you're a soprano and you're always trying to sing down here, that's gonna get really old. Yeah, they don't need to hear you sing. They need to learn how to sing exactly. I love that's a wonderful quote. So let's sum it all up. If you had to sum up everything you know and everything we talked about today, what is the most important thing that a teacher can do to protect their vocal health.
I would say,
be in touch with your body. Let yourself be in touch with your body. Don't view your job at don't view it as an either or either I'm taking care of my voice, or I'm giving everything I can to my students. It doesn't have to be that way. You can't really give everything that you need to give to your students if you're not taking good care of yourself. So tune into your body, and that could mean a variety of things. That could mean seeking help if you're having a little trouble realizing that, gee, I need to step back for my day and make a budget of my voice a little bit. I need to be more quiet on the weekends. I need to drink more water. Just that self awareness and tuning into your body will actually result in you doing all the good behaviors that you need to do to take care of your voice.
I love that just listening to our bodies, which is a wonderful lesson to learn that is super hard to learn, is listen to your bodies, they will tell you what they need to know absolutely All right, so I have thoroughly enjoyed this conversation, and I really hope that the listeners are able to find some things to help them in their vocal health. So on behalf of everyone listening, as well as well as myself, who got some wonderful tidbits. Thank you so much for being on the podcast today. Well, thank you for having me. Bryson, it was an honor. If
you found this episode helpful at all. I would really appreciate you leaving a review on iTunes or wherever you listen to podcasts. Not only does this help me understand what you find most helpful, it also helps more music educators, just like you find the podcast to check out the show notes for this episode, including any links mentioned, head on over to that music teacher.com/show
notes you.
Transcribed by https://otter.ai
