Curriculum Development Panel
===
[00:00:00] Bryson Tarbet: Hello and welcome back to the Elementary Music Summit January Refresh, uh, brought to you by, in part, by Beth's Notes, Sound Thinking Interactive, the Soaring Scarves Academy, and Musically Minted. We are excited for this live panel, um, we've already got some questions coming in, we have some that are pre prepared, and we're going to get through as many as we can all about curriculum development.
[00:00:21] Bryson Tarbet: But before I do that, I'm going to go ahead and bring our guests to the stage, or at least I'm going to try. So I believe we are now all here. So what I would think, what I want us to get started with today is before we really dive into any of the questions, is we'll start with Molly, then go to Leanna, and then Jennifer.
[00:00:40] Bryson Tarbet: Will you just let us know who you are briefly, where you are in the world, and what you are currently teaching?
[00:00:46] Mollie Schwartz: Yeah. Hi. Can you hear me okay?
[00:00:49] Bryson Tarbet: You're great.
[00:00:50] Mollie Schwartz: Perfect. Uh, my name is Molly Schwartz. I teach in Minnesota. I teach K5 music and 4th and 5th grade choir. [00:01:00] And, um, you've maybe seen me on Instagram as MollyTeachesMusic.
[00:01:03] Mollie Schwartz: Um, otherwise, I am super happy to be here and to answer some questions.
[00:01:08] Bryson Tarbet: Alrighty, and next up is Leanna.
[00:01:10] Leanna O'Brien: Hello, my name is Leanna O'Brien, CEO of the Starring Scarves Academy. I'm a curriculum developer, really interested in bringing more movement into elementary music room for grades K through eight.
[00:01:22] Leanna O'Brien: Typically, right now we are in L. A., me and my husband. We travel all around the United States in our travel trailer, and we are finally experiencing our first rainy day in L. A., which if you've been watching the news, I think we need it. So no, so happy to be here and ready to get started.
[00:01:40] Bryson Tarbet: We're so glad you're here too.
[00:01:41] Bryson Tarbet: And last but not least, we have Jennifer Bailey.
[00:01:44] Jennifer Bailey: Well, hello, I'm Jennifer Bailey. I am the person behind Sing2Kids. I'm an elementary music teacher here in Michigan, where I've been teaching for the last 29 years, K 5 music, early childhood music, and, uh, doing, uh, teacher [00:02:00] development through PDLCs through the Gordon Institute for Music Learning.
[00:02:05] Bryson Tarbet: Alrighty, before we get started, so we're gonna be talking about curriculum development, and I see a lot of questions, and you know, with the teachers that I work with, and you know, one on one clients and things like that. And I just want us to all start on the same page. If you are here live, in the chat, will you put a one in the chat if you have no district or state or any, whoever's in charge of you, provided curriculum?
[00:02:26] Bryson Tarbet: And if you're on the stage, raise your hand if you, if you don't have a curriculum, because I never had a curriculum. Um, this is a very common thing, and I want people to realize that it is a common thing. So you see some ones that are coming through, right? So what I want us to start off with the fact is I want us to acknowledge that for better or for worse, I would argue mostly for the worse, music teachers are not given curriculums to work from.
[00:02:50] Bryson Tarbet: And to make that even a little bit more difficult when we're in our undergraduate, sometimes even graduate training, we don't talk a lot about curriculum development. We talk a lot about [00:03:00] curriculum delivery, but that's a little bit different. So, um, feel free anyone who wants to start this answer. What is curriculum development to you?
[00:03:08] Bryson Tarbet: What does that phrase mean and why do you think it's important?
[00:03:14] Mollie Schwartz: I would say it is just kind of like It is what we are doing in our music classroom and kind of where we want to see our students grow, like what do we want them to do in kindergarten and then how do we want to see them take those ideas from kindergarten and grow as they make it their way through fifth grade, and then I don't know, vertically aligning with how are they going to transfer that to middle school and then maybe even to high school.
[00:03:41] Leanna O'Brien: Molly, I would add that it also our guiding posts and our roadmaps so that we're not trying to reinvent the wheel every single day, doesn't always have to be something that we're trying to bring in. Instead, it's something that we're trying to build. It's going to be the thing that provides our students those routines and structures [00:04:00] that are going to see them learning at just these crazier levels than if we're just throwing things at them every day and going, I hope this works.
[00:04:07] Leanna O'Brien: Mm
[00:04:07] Mollie Schwartz: hmm. Yeah, and. Just thinking in my district, there's three public elementary schools, and if a student is moving from school to school, we try to kind of stay on the same topic at the same time. We don't necessarily have to be doing the exact same activities, but we try to hit the same concepts and ideas around, you know, quarter one, quarter two, so that if a student is moving, hopefully they'll come in and also know TT and TA if they're in a certain grade.
[00:04:38] Jennifer Bailey: And I like to think of it as like the guiding principles that informs the decisions I make in my classroom. So I have these big ideas of things I want to do with my students, but the activities that I choose day to day are how I actually deliver those big ideas and backward planning. I love that you mentioned, Mellie, like what do I want to do in kindergarten to get them to fifth grade?
[00:04:58] Jennifer Bailey: But I like to go [00:05:00] backwards. What do I do in fifth grade? That's going to and then move back and say what do I have to do if I want them to do this in fifth grade? What do I do in fourth? What do I do in third? And and so I have you.
[00:05:09] Mollie Schwartz: Yeah, like with my player, I always ask The middle school choir director, like what are you hoping that the choir participants know once they get to middle school?
[00:05:18] Mollie Schwartz: And how can I help with that with my fifth grade choir so that they're ready for middle school choir? They'll be set up for success with moving on if they continue with music in middle school.
[00:05:30] Bryson Tarbet: And I think we've all brought up, you know, you, you, all three of you have really brought up a good points of why this is important.
[00:05:35] Bryson Tarbet: One. We're, we're always leading to something, right? It's not a series of just activities. It really is a curriculum. It has a beginning, a middle and an end and things are building off of each other and kind of going off what Leanna was saying also is it helps us get off of that hamster wheel a little bit because we have kind of some guiding.
[00:05:53] Bryson Tarbet: Some guard, some guardrails, right? We, you know, there are so many things that we can put into our classroom, but when we have to kind of, [00:06:00] you know, move ourselves in towards, you know, these, these different concepts, it can clarify things for us. You know, I do a lot of work, um, with teachers that are trying to just, they just feel like they're on that hamster wheel of lesson planning.
[00:06:10] Bryson Tarbet: And the biggest thing that I can, you know, urge anyone to do is to put in some time so that when you sit down to lesson plan, you don't have to figure out, What you're doing or what you're teaching, you have to figure out how you're teaching it. So, you know, when you're sitting down to lesson plan and it's the middle of October and it's second grade, you know you're going to be doing dough.
[00:06:28] Bryson Tarbet: Like that makes it so much easier and gives you so much time. So kind of going off of that question, Kylie asked us to go a little bit deeper. I'm talking about, you know, she says she's at a private school. There's so there's no curriculum. Um, and then. That doesn't really follow a set of standards. Um, what standards would we use?
[00:06:46] Bryson Tarbet: How would you recommend, you know, using standards once you decide which ones to use, um, in a way that you might be able to kind of make it your own, but still have, um, some of those, I don't know, some of [00:07:00] the standards that be that would, you know, you don't necessarily need in a private school, but are really helpful when developing a curriculum and we have anything to say to that.
[00:07:07] Leanna O'Brien: Yeah, no, I would say that I was exactly in Kylie shoes. I started my first ever job was at a public charter school where they looked at me and they said, we don't really have the money money to buy a curriculum. We're not looking for to do that. Get to making and I found that out the like Two months before school was set to start.
[00:07:28] Leanna O'Brien: And I lived in the Starbucks, um, trying to figure out just what my own expectations were. And I based mine off of the national music standards, which I feel like are such a good tool. It's a starting tool. I wouldn't say it's the end. I'll be all especially, you know, you have to know what you're going into.
[00:07:47] Leanna O'Brien: And if you have been at the school for a while, then at least, you know, okay, here's where my students are. Here are the national music standards. Here are the steps I can take to get them there. But if you were going into a blind like me, if anybody [00:08:00] is doing that, then finding those national standards and making them a guide post, but also giving yourself grace because you don't know what you're going into to get your students there and making the smaller steps.
[00:08:13] Jennifer Bailey: And I would add if you're using whether it's a state or national standards, please don't let the standards overwhelm you because they are deep and broad. And oftentimes one standard can encompass three or four different skills or concepts. Choose two or three to focus on and choose the ones that really Um, adhere to active music making many times when you're doing an activity in your classroom and you're looking at one particular standard, you're going to be supporting other standards in the curriculum already.
[00:08:46] Jennifer Bailey: And so just choosing a few standards to start with that really focus on active music making to me is the most important thing you can do when you're starting to build your own curriculum.
[00:08:57] Mollie Schwartz: Yeah, if you're using the whole like create, [00:09:00] perform, respond, connect ideas, um, my district, the three of us kind of sat down and bundled some of them together.
[00:09:08] Mollie Schwartz: I'm looking at this document that we made and, um, we took each of those, um, strands, create, perform, connect and respond. And we realized that a lot of times the respond and connect can kind of go together. And there's a few times where perform and connect can go together. Yeah. Yeah. We took the, um, lots of words.
[00:09:30] Mollie Schwartz: We took the strands and then the benchmarks and standards within those, and then made, I can statements out of those so that it's more of like kid friendly language and. Also, like, to us, a little bit more of friendly language of, okay, what are we actually doing within that, um, standard? So, instead of saying, like, improvise musical sounds in response to teacher cues, we just wrote, I can improvise musical sounds for one of the standards in kindergarten.
[00:09:58] Mollie Schwartz: And instead of [00:10:00] saying, Change selected musical sounds using teacher feedback. We just made it, I can change my musical sound. It's much more kid friendly. And these are like the visuals that we show our students. It just makes a little bit, it makes a little bit easier for everyone to use language that we might understand more than the, the, I don't know.
[00:10:20] Mollie Schwartz: More in depth ideas.
[00:10:22] Leanna O'Brien: Scientific way, because they all
[00:10:24] Mollie Schwartz: describe it.
[00:10:25] Bryson Tarbet: Yeah, and I think in some way we can get really bogged down with the standards. Um, and I, I have such a love hate relationship with standards because I think they're really important in helping align things. But the reality is, even within the same state, even within the same school district, you might have, you know, a K 4 building that gets to see their kids every three days, and a K 4 building that gets to see their kids every six days.
[00:10:48] Bryson Tarbet: And those are going to be very different. You know, it's going to take them longer to get through things, so, you know, I think of, I think one thing that is, you know, a double edged sword as arts teachers is that [00:11:00] we, we get to see kids for a lot of years, so we can kind of move things along when we need to, um, which kind of going off of what Leanna is saying, if you don't know where you're going into, that can make it really difficult to get started, um, but once you've kind of gone through that initial process of, you know, figuring out What your student population knows what things like that and kind of going through that.
[00:11:21] Bryson Tarbet: It's going to allow you to be more efficient and kind of flex those standards in a little bit more and kind of going off of Jennifer's point about that. The standards can you can get really bogged down in just the language of them. If I really were being honest, if I were to make my own standards, there would be like three things.
[00:11:38] Bryson Tarbet: It would be music or melodic things, rhythmic things, and other things. And like, going through all of that, we're going to, we're going to learn to read it and write it and perform it. You know, we're going to talk about the why behind it. We're going to talk about some of the form, things like that. But really, like, those are the things that I want my students to get out.
[00:11:55] Bryson Tarbet: So, you know, in my curriculum app, I do not overcomplicate it. I have a column that's [00:12:00] Rhythmic a column that's melodic and a column that's literally called other and it's just the other stuff that goes in there So you can simplify it as much as you need to go So Natalia says she's a first year teacher at a charter school with no curriculum for pre k through fourth grade general music I need a place to start where would you recommend or how or what doing?
[00:12:20] Bryson Tarbet: What would you recommend someone who's in Natalia's shoes where they're just? Figuring out and they have nothing in front of them and they just need to put pen to paper and start doing something How would you recommend someone like that get started? I
[00:12:33] Mollie Schwartz: think it depends on if you like need to show your administrators something before this school year Maybe look for other like we My district made a scope and sequence and you know, you can be like, Oh, this is what we hope to do at this certain time within each quarter.
[00:12:50] Mollie Schwartz: But if you have a little bit more flexibility, maybe don't even create something like that until you can actually see your students and kind of see what they know. You can ask [00:13:00] your students what they know and what they liked, you know, if you're new to the district, Oh, what did you like doing in music last year?
[00:13:05] Mollie Schwartz: And maybe they'll tell you, Oh, we learned these rhythms and we like playing these certain instruments. And that can give you a little bit more of an idea of. where to start if you have a little bit more flexibility. Um, of course, maybe have some plans within there, but your, your students can let you know and help you out with what they know or what they hoped to do in the school year, kind of going on the whole, on a responsive classroom of like, oh, what are your hopes and dreams for this school year?
[00:13:33] Mollie Schwartz: And then building upon what to do from what they want to do.
[00:13:40] Bryson Tarbet: Yeah. I think one of the things that, Oh, apparently I'm frozen, but I'm still here. One of the things that I have used, especially when I, when I first started teaching it, or when I had new, new kids in front of me is, you know, the first few weeks of school, like one of the things I would do is what is something you absolutely loved that you've done in music class?
[00:13:58] Bryson Tarbet: Maybe, maybe it was music [00:14:00] class at your old school or whatever. Like what's something that you've, you've absolutely loved or what's something you hope we get to this year. And just like Molly was saying, that can be a really good way of. Not only understanding like what their experience looked like, especially if you really don't know what that is But it'll start giving some ideas on what they're gonna resonate with Because you know, it seems like they might say oh, I love this game and everyone's good Oh, yeah, that was so much fun and you get to kind of build that, you know, kind of understand that a little bit So yeah, I mean anyone else want to add anything about where to start?
[00:14:31] Leanna O'Brien: Yeah, I would say, um, 100 percent I hear what both you and molly are saying about giving it more of a student led giving them that independence. But I would also say that it's important for teachers to find what their own fireworks are and seeing how those two connect. What are you passionate about teaching about?
[00:14:47] Leanna O'Brien: What are your core values as a music teacher? Mine? Mm hmm. Teaching literacy through movement, right? Bringing in as many different types of music from as many different cultures as I can and then seeing [00:15:00] my students being able to put it together independently, right? Those are some of my fireworks that I'm just like, Oh, I love that.
[00:15:06] Leanna O'Brien: But then I also have to figure out, well, how can I connect it to what they love? Right? So like when I wanted to teach classical music, I found out I could not just teach it by playing music and expecting them to resonate with it. No, they didn't care. But if I taught it to them in a way that it got them up, got them moving and got them using something that they liked, Oh my goodness, there were my fireworks and theirs and they could both connect.
[00:15:28] Leanna O'Brien: Right. And, um, so yeah, I'd say like we first have to like. Start by asking ourselves the question because at the end of the day, it's our classroom and we want it to look like a place where we wanna be.
[00:15:39] Jennifer Bailey: Well, and I would add to that, to what Leanna said is knowing who you, even if you are a first or second year teacher, you know what you value in, in.
[00:15:50] Jennifer Bailey: the experience you want to provide for children. So if literacy is really important to you, you may find yourself aligning with the Kodai approach more. If active music [00:16:00] making and improvising and creating is what sets you on fire and working with kids, then looking at an orphan MLT approach might be something that you look into.
[00:16:10] Jennifer Bailey: And oftentimes when you look at those approaches, you can connect with others that will give you sequence or frameworks of things that they use starting in kindergarten, first grade, second grade. And again, I, I keep hammering back. You are never going to go wrong with active music making in your room.
[00:16:26] Jennifer Bailey: getting your kids to sing, getting your kids to chant, getting your kids to move. And I think even more importantly than all of the things you do curricularly is creating a safe environment for your children to explore music is the number one thing you can do. Even if you're not sure of where to go next, make your classroom a safe and joyful place where kids can make music.
[00:16:48] Jennifer Bailey: And if that happens, you've got a fertile. Uh, uh, groundwork to build anything that you want to do moving forward.
[00:16:57] Bryson Tarbet: That reminds me so much to back when, [00:17:00] you know, during COVID, when all of the stuff was going on and, you know, I know in my district for the vast majority of the year, we were not allowed to sing inside and that obviously threw a whole wrench in my melodic sequence.
[00:17:11] Bryson Tarbet: Um, but so I, you know, I, I tried to kind of force it a little bit for a while, and then I realized I need to stop. I need to reevaluate what is important here. And just like Jennifer said, I kind of shifted my, I shifted my position to, we are going to make music. We are going to enjoy it, and we're just going to get as far as we can get rhythmically, and hopefully at some point we'll be able to sing again, and, you know, we'll pick it up next year if we need to.
[00:17:37] Bryson Tarbet: And I think, you know, also going with what Leanna said, you're going to have to enjoy the things, because especially if you teach multiple sections, you're going to be doing it like a lot of times, so if you hate it, the students are going to get, they're going to feel that. Um, you need to find something that is ideally lighting both of you up, because that's when you're both in your sweet zones.
[00:17:57] Bryson Tarbet: So, Deidre [00:18:00] says, I struggle with kids remembering what we do from class to class because I see them so infrequently. How would you suggest we do that? Luliana seems like she's ready to go with this.
[00:18:16] Leanna O'Brien: Yes, no, I would love to take that because, oh my goodness, I have been there. I have been there where, Especially when connecting abstract concepts, which when you think about it, music is abstract, right?
[00:18:27] Leanna O'Brien: We have all these lovely terms, all these vocabulary words, dynamic, articulation, tempo, texture. And at the end of the day, they're all just words. And especially if we're teaching something in a lecture based style where We're saying something that's not providing our students with an experience and experiences are the things that stick in a student's brain.
[00:18:49] Leanna O'Brien: If something is fun, if, if, if it got them up, if it got them engaged, they're way more likely to start having those building blocks that actually stay with them [00:19:00] versus, okay, we had a lesson where we did a lot of talking. That talking is going to wash over them, but instead, if you get them. up. If you get them moving, if you get them feeling with what a lot of what you're talking about is, if you're in some way, shape or form putting it with their hands, right?
[00:19:16] Leanna O'Brien: My students at any point, um, I use Pitch Hill. If anybody uses Pitch Hill. Oh, my goodness. It's like this wonderful way to teach soul fish, but you teach it through a story, which is so powerful because if you tell a student a fact they're going to forget in a day. But if you tell a child a story, they're going to remember it for life.
[00:19:34] Leanna O'Brien: So I can literally just walk into the class box or dough and the kids will immediately show me where box or dough is like flathead me. And again, like putting it to a story and some sort of movement. So those hand signs I feel like is some of like the best things you can do is just providing that experience that connects them.
[00:19:51] Mollie Schwartz: And experiences where they can add like their own idea to it, like doing some projects where they're putting their own personal spin on it. And [00:20:00] at least, I don't know, maybe at the beginning of the school year, you could do some sort of project where students are offering like ideas of things that they like.
[00:20:07] Mollie Schwartz: And if you are new to the school, you can go through and see like, oh, these kids. like, or this person likes this song, or maybe it's a connection to a song from a movie. Oh, they like this movie, and see what students like, and you can build upon what you're teaching and how you're teaching based on their interests and things that they like in the world.
[00:20:25] Mollie Schwartz: That might help with, I don't know if you're new to a school, with getting to know your students at the beginning of the school year.
[00:20:32] Jennifer Bailey: And I would just encourage you to not feel like you have to teach something new all the time. Repetition is your friend, and keep things simple. If you're going to teach a skill or a concept, it's never a one and done lesson.
[00:20:48] Jennifer Bailey: I teach it, we practice it, they show me that they have mastery, and then we come back at it again in another song so that I know that they can apply it, or they get to do it in a different way, but [00:21:00] showing the understanding from previous lessons. So use repetition to your advantage. It is your friend and it will help students.
[00:21:07] Jennifer Bailey: Even if you're changing up your repertoire or your material, you can still use repetition in the concepts and skills that you're teaching so that they begin to show mastery. We're going to dive
[00:21:18] Bryson Tarbet: in a lot deeper into this in the keynote training today, but these are good points. Molly, did you have something else to add?
[00:21:23] Mollie Schwartz: I was going to say the whole like first month of school, I'm always doing similar things with K1, 2, 3, 4, 5, and it's easier on me. And they, there's never a student that goes, we did this last year. We don't want to do this again. They're always excited. Like, Oh, we know this song. We did it last year. tier. And, you know, like you said, you can take a game and maybe they did it in kindergarten.
[00:21:45] Mollie Schwartz: And now in first grade, they play drums on TT and sticks on Ta and you're doing something a little bit different, but with the same song that's already familiar.
[00:21:55] Bryson Tarbet: That is a huge tip. I feel like we feel a [00:22:00] lot of us as teachers feel like we need to have a new song. every single lesson. And the reality is the majority of my lessons did not have a new song.
[00:22:09] Bryson Tarbet: And I think, you know, especially do yourself a favor, you know, when you can find songs that you can use for so many different concepts, the kids enjoy it. Like students, the kids love repetition, especially if you're changing the way you're using it. For instance, the song apple tree I use in kindergarten for steady beat.
[00:22:25] Bryson Tarbet: I used in first grade for time TT I used in second grade for dough and they would still keep wanting it in third and fourth grade if there were more concepts I could pull out of it. But I think that the way that, that, you know, I use that song is one, it helps me because I don't have to learn and find a bunch of new repertoire.
[00:22:41] Bryson Tarbet: I can use that in so many different ways. We can use it by playing the game. We can write, you know, write it on the board or do we can. Take rhythmic things out of it. We can pull melodic things out of it. We can add a composition or add movement. There's so many different ways you can use one song. So you're not stuck on the repertoire.
[00:22:58] Bryson Tarbet: Hamster wheel. I apparently I'm really into [00:23:00] hamster wheels today, but that's like, that's really what how it feels. Go ahead, Jennifer.
[00:23:03] Jennifer Bailey: Well, I was, I'm going to make a confession that may be shocking, but I use the same exact repertoire for kindergarten to first grade. And in kindergarten, everything I do is experiential and in first grade, we use that same repertoire and then we go back and we start to learn how to label microbe microbe or ta and titi and, and aspects of the melody because they get so engaged in it that they, they, don't even realize it's songs.
[00:23:28] Jennifer Bailey: They might say, Oh, I remember we did this last year, but it's always with joy. And we're learning new things from the material. So don't be afraid to, to recycle a repertoire with kids because it really has a powerful effect in your learning.
[00:23:42] Leanna O'Brien: I was going to say not only that, but when they're in kindergarten, They're so busy learning just how to be in school and, you know, still almost being at that preschool age where everything is just new to them and everything's exciting and everything's [00:24:00] wonderful, but maybe not a lot sticks.
[00:24:02] Leanna O'Brien: And I feel like going over things again in first grade, especially, um, and then making it a little more challenging, 100%, but I do feel like, um, it's a, it's a good idea. I love hearing all of you say it cause it makes me feel way less bad.
[00:24:16] Mollie Schwartz: I also love when students can connect. Um, like we were doing a sew me dough composition with our bodies where you stand for sew, you kneel on your knee for me, you go all the way down for dough, and all of a sudden they were like, let's try to make apple tree with our bodies.
[00:24:32] Mollie Schwartz: So then they were like, sew sew me, sew sew me, but then all of a sudden they realized that there was law in there. And they were like, Wait, what is that one? And all of a sudden we were learning like you could touch your head for law. And it was an idea that they brought up because we had used apple tree so many times in kindergarten and first grade.
[00:24:48] Mollie Schwartz: And then they wanted to use it and explore with, you know, a different activity in second grade.
[00:24:54] Bryson Tarbet: So Molly, both you and Jennifer have mentioned a really good tip, especially if you just feel like you are [00:25:00] drowning in lesson plans, which is combine them. Do a kindergarten one plan. Do a 2 3 plan, do a 4 5 plan.
[00:25:07] Bryson Tarbet: And I think this is something that we feel like we, well, we can't do this, you know, fourth and fifth grade, they're, they're different, you know, and they are, but there's easy ways that you can, you know, offer extension activities when, when you can. I mean, you know, I, I've been very vocal in the fact that if I, if my kindergartners could leave kindergarten and all they can do is access their head voice and under, and understand steady beat.
[00:25:28] Bryson Tarbet: I'd be super great. Um, that's all we're getting into. Um, so my kindergarten one lesson plans, just, just like Jennifer said, would be very similar, the same repertoire, the same games. Um, but you know, it may be instead of working on Todd TT, we're working on steady beat instead. So we're taking different concepts out of that.
[00:25:44] Bryson Tarbet: And that makes it so much easier for me, lesson planning, because that all of a sudden basically cuts my lesson planning in half, right? Um, that's one of those things where I feel like. I feel like we as the teacher, especially if we teach it multiple times, we feel like they're [00:26:00] going to be bored, but they really aren't.
[00:26:02] Bryson Tarbet: Um, and again, if there's enough time past, they won't even remember. They'll remember the concepts and they'll have it in their back, but it's not going to be this completely brand new thing. So this is a great question. Bonnie says as music teachers, we typically pull from a lot of different curriculums and methods.
[00:26:20] Bryson Tarbet: How did you find your flow? Do you just pick things you like or something else? So this is a really loaded question, but where do you. What do you have to say to this? Anyone have someone to start something to start us off?
[00:26:35] Jennifer Bailey: Um, I can share a little bit for me. Uh, what started me off in this journey was seeing what didn't work for me.
[00:26:46] Jennifer Bailey: And that sounds like such a silly thing, but I can remember as an undergraduate student and my journey into education is a little different. I tried to be a music ed student and, um. And it was, I was going to be, because I'm much older than the rest of the panel. I [00:27:00] went through at a time where if you were an instrumentalist, you had to be an instrumental teacher.
[00:27:04] Jennifer Bailey: And if you were a vocalist, you had to be a vocal teacher. And you could not be an elementary music person as a flutist. But so long story short is my journey was watching teachers and going, I, that doesn't connect or resonate with me. And what I found was working with people who use music learning to really, um, just.
[00:27:22] Jennifer Bailey: Lit me on fire. I just thought I want to be able to do that and show others so finding finding your people, finding what speaks to your heart and what is important to you as a music educator. If music literacy is at the core of your love language for your kids, then getting connected with those Kodai people and, and working with them and building community and getting ideas and sharing ideas and seeing their scope and sequence and applying that your classroom is so important.
[00:27:50] Jennifer Bailey: Um, and now I've lost the question Bryson.
[00:27:54] Bryson Tarbet: That was a wonderful answer. We're all talking about basically, where do you, where do you get all the things? How do you get started? [00:28:00] Where you pick things you like, you find your flow. So that was wonderful.
[00:28:03] Jennifer Bailey: And go and go to go. I hate saying this, like we all go these through these undergraduate programs and then you come out and the first thing you have to do is go to, a level, but going to a level is life transforming.
[00:28:16] Jennifer Bailey: I will say that too. So if you have the means or the opportunity to attend, whether it's or, or Kodai or any other approach, going to a level is going to really just, um, inform your practice and change your approach to teaching.
[00:28:31] Leanna O'Brien: Definitely. I hear what you're saying about, it's like finding what matters to you and then knowing that those resources are out there, right?
[00:28:39] Leanna O'Brien: You don't have to invent everything every single time. A lot of times when we're music educators, we tend to be the only music educator in the building, right? In the school. And we feel like this Island just completely by ourselves. We are not, there are resources out there. Find your fireworks, find what matters to you, [00:29:00] and then get on YouTube, get on Google and just find.
[00:29:05] Leanna O'Brien: the resources that you need, right there. They are everywhere. But I'd say finding your fireworks first because you don't want to bombard yourself with all the shoulds. Oh, well, this teacher's doing that. So I should know, find what matters to you. Find what you feel like you can implement with confidence right now and then have a wishlist of, Oh, I hope that one day I can do this.
[00:29:27] Leanna O'Brien: All right. But don't bombard yourself with all the shoulds. Find what matters, find the resources that matter, and then keep them all right in your teacher tool belt, right? I always say like, I'm able to just grab so many different movement breaks, so many different clapping games, so many different ways to transition my students, that if I ever feel like that spiral is starting to happen, I can stop it.
[00:29:49] Leanna O'Brien: I can prevent it. Instead of managing my students behavior, I can prevent it by having all these things in my teacher tool belt that I can just pull out and start doing. Everyone, we're gonna do a song [00:30:00] because I'm about to go crazy!
[00:30:01] Mollie Schwartz: Right? It's great. Yeah, when I first started teaching, I didn't have a specific curriculum.
[00:30:08] Mollie Schwartz: Like, there wasn't something to flip through and be like, okay, day one, you're here, you're doing this. And at first I was overwhelmed because I was like, I'm new to this. What am I supposed to do? Like, I, I, Then I really wanted something to like just follow and do exactly what it told me to do because that seemed easier.
[00:30:26] Mollie Schwartz: And then maybe like halfway through the school year, I was like, you know what, I'm actually glad that I don't have something like that because I'm doing things that I want to do with them. And you know, it took a little bit of time to, to plan, you know, your first year, I feel like you're spending so much extra time outside of school just figuring out what to do.
[00:30:44] Mollie Schwartz: But then once you do, um, take time to write it down or keep an ongoing slideshow where you can just go back and pull a slide that you already use the next year. And it'll make your life easier in the future. But I don't know, I realized that I didn't want [00:31:00] to follow exactly what someone was telling me to do because Sometimes curriculums like that aren't what you want to do.
[00:31:06] Mollie Schwartz: Like I looked through the game plan curriculum, um, that we now have in our district and I was like, I wouldn't want to do that on the first day of school anymore. Or I wouldn't want to do this here. Or some of the things are just outdated now. And I know that it wouldn't work with my students or it's just not.
[00:31:23] Mollie Schwartz: you know, a song that is okay to use anymore. Um, so now I've realized that I, I like coming up with ideas on my own, or like you said, going to YouTube, pulling up Instagram. The other day I was like, I don't know what to do with this certain class. I went on Instagram, started scrolling and was like, Oh, there's a good idea from somebody else.
[00:31:45] Mollie Schwartz: And And I tried that activity and it ended up being a favorite and yeah, so just rely on other people and colleagues or if you don't have colleagues and you're on your own social media, YouTube, there's, there's a lot out there that can [00:32:00] help you out.
[00:32:01] Bryson Tarbet: Yeah, you know, I have, this is a heavy, a heavy question.
[00:32:05] Bryson Tarbet: You know, there's, there's a lot to be said about undergrad and how it prepares elementary music teachers. Um, and I've been very vocal in the fact that I feel like we can do better. Um, And I think that one of the things that, there's, I feel like there's two different reasons why we kind of get thrown into the fire when, in our first position.
[00:32:24] Bryson Tarbet: First of all, when we student teach, we student teach typically in a developed program with a teacher who's pretty good at what they do. And then we're thrown into a program that has a new teacher for the first time. And we're, we're seeing the beginning of the year rather than the end of the year, which can make it really tricky.
[00:32:40] Bryson Tarbet: And then also we feel like we have to kind of put ourselves in one of these boxes. Um, you know, I, you know, I, I, I hate, I also hate that it's, we recommend so often to take a Kodai or Fidel Crows, a world drumming, you know, level out after your first year of teaching or, you know, before your first year of teaching whenever possible.
[00:32:59] Bryson Tarbet: But [00:33:00] I feel like sometimes we can get really stuck in In what, you know, stay in one box, you know, I have a codex certificate on my wall over here, but I, I do not follow everything completely the way that I did in my levels training because just like, you know, what Molly was saying about a curriculum is, I know my students and I know that the students are in front of me and sometimes we need to deviate from what I had planned or, you know, what the, uh, Correct way might be to teach it or to do that.
[00:33:27] Bryson Tarbet: And I think that's one thing that I actually love about our positions. It's such a devilish sword to get through those for a few years when you're just trying to, you know, stay above water. But we have so much flexibility that a lot of other teachers don't because. We're making it all up ourselves. Um, so definitely a double edged sword, but I don't know.
[00:33:46] Bryson Tarbet: I, I wouldn't have the other way. Go Jennifer.
[00:33:49] Jennifer Bailey: I just wanted to say, um, I, I love that you say this because a curriculum is, is only as good as your willingness to adapt and match where [00:34:00] your students are. That's why I say like a good curriculum is just bumpers. It's a guiding tool that helps you. But if you're not teaching what the kids in your classroom needs, the curriculum really doesn't do anything because you've got to meet your kids where they are.
[00:34:17] Bryson Tarbet: Exactly. So there's these are some great questions. I know we have some more here, but I want to go to for one that's on our, um, one of our list that we came up with because I think it's really important. Um, which is where did it go? I lost it. Um, Oh, my goodness. I just lost it. Oh, there we go. Um, this is one that, you know, we often talk about building your relation or building your, um, curriculum, right?
[00:34:42] Bryson Tarbet: Like earlier career teachers, things like that. How often. Do you think we should revisit our curriculums and rebuild it and rework it and, you know, or do you think we should at all? And, you know, what's, what's, what's your thoughts on, on that?
[00:34:56] Mollie Schwartz: I'd say like every year, just [00:35:00] the world is changing and The way that we teach needs to, well, not necessarily the way that we teach what we are teaching and how we are teaching it might need to change because of that.
[00:35:11] Mollie Schwartz: And, you know, things that are going on in our world can always be learning opportunities. And, you know, I might go back in my slideshow and be like, okay, what was I doing in March of last year? And I might see that, oh, I was doing this certain thing. And maybe it's not relevant this year, or maybe we kind of hit that already.
[00:35:27] Mollie Schwartz: Um, so. you know, you can be flexible, especially with COVID. I, I, I don't know, the next year I went, oh, we never did that. We never did that. Well, we couldn't do that because we weren't able to sing and whatnot. And that's the nice part about our job is that we can be a little bit more flexible. And if we didn't do something the year before, We can maybe try to add it in this next year.
[00:35:51] Leanna O'Brien: I would say along with that, Molly, we can see, especially if you have either a curriculum that you've developed, right? A curriculum [00:36:00] that you're using flexibly, right? But we can see where we can revise it without necessarily reinventing it, right? We pick and choose based on all the resources that we have in front of us.
[00:36:12] Leanna O'Brien: So that we don't actually have to just scrap anything. You never have to scrap something. But maybe it's time to make it more relevant. Maybe it's time to add in those things that you know your students are really gonna love. Or the things that you missed. But that's what I love about having to develop it.
[00:36:29] Leanna O'Brien: I don't have to throw anything out. Um, if I keep it organized. If I don't keep it organized, then I find that, Oh my gosh, when did I do this? Oh my gosh, I remember doing this! How did I forget? I forget a lot of stuff if I, if I don't have it very organized.
[00:36:45] Jennifer Bailey: And I agree with you both. I, I revisit my curriculum every summer.
[00:36:49] Jennifer Bailey: I look at the things that were successful and think about why they were successful and what could I do to even make it better? What were the things that were a struggle for kids? Was it my fault? [00:37:00] Was it something I hadn't prepared them for? Was it something they hadn't the, the, um, prerequisite skill for?
[00:37:06] Jennifer Bailey: And is it something that I value that I want to go back and find a better way to teach it? Or is it something that, you know, sometimes there are just things you do and you're like, okay, it's cute, but it's not really. serving my students and what they need. So is that something that I just let go?
[00:37:21] Mollie Schwartz: I also use the end of the school year as a time to have my students reflect.
[00:37:25] Mollie Schwartz: And I usually have them answer questions of like, what did you like this year? What was your favorite? I kind of already mentioned this, but knowing what they like to do will help plan for that grade level for the next year. Okay. I, if they, If at least six kids said they really liked this certain thing, maybe we want to make sure we do it this next year.
[00:37:43] Mollie Schwartz: Or if some students were like, yeah, not my favorite thing. Maybe it's time to either change the way that we did that or just eliminate it altogether.
[00:37:52] Bryson Tarbet: Yeah. I think one of the, okay, first of all, let's address an elephant in the room. Put a one in the chat. If your curriculum completely changed because of COVID or like [00:38:00] after COVID.
[00:38:00] Bryson Tarbet: 100 percent mine completely. I had to revamp everything because again, melodically, we were basically a year behind, but also just like where the students were emotionally. And, you know, that was also a huge thing that we had to take. So I feel like if we were to look at like teachers curriculums, like 2020 and 2021 is where a lot of new things are happening.
[00:38:20] Bryson Tarbet: Um, and I love how all of you mentioned that when you're, you know, revisiting your curriculum or revisiting your lesson plans, you're not Throwing things away and writing a new one. I think, you know, I'm a little, I'm not a computer person, but like think, you know, I'm on the little, the Apple beta, right? So they're releasing a new version every couple of weeks, and they're not throwing the whole thing out and starting from scratch.
[00:38:42] Bryson Tarbet: They're noticing where the problems were, right? So when people are submitting bugs, or when they notice that something's not working, and then they address those problems, and then they release it out again, and then they see what other problems, or, hey, what problems did this cause that we didn't even think of?
[00:38:55] Bryson Tarbet: And eventually, we get These smaller changes, these smaller changes. So thinking about over your [00:39:00] entire career, right? Early in your career, you're making these big changes. Maybe you, you, and you end up doing a CODI certification. So that might have a big change in your curriculum. Um, but as you keep going, there's going to be smaller and smaller changes, unless there's something like big, like a global pandemic, or, you know, you move schools or you have a new student population.
[00:39:18] Bryson Tarbet: I think that's a better view for curriculum of, you know, Basically, revisiting it every time you reteach something, see what you can do better. How can you make this one, one percent better rather than, all right, well, it's been 10 years, time for a change. You know, I think that is a, a much healthier way to view us as the teacher, but also a lot more accessible because it's a little bit easier of a task because we're doing it week by week, lesson by lesson, rather than all at once.
[00:39:48] Mollie Schwartz: Also another thing that changes each school year is like the amount of students that we have and how many, um, like how big a class is. So certain things that I was able to do one year maybe doesn't quite [00:40:00] work this school year because all of a sudden we had, I don't know, 28 kids in a class and just some things won't work and you might have to kind of modify or change how you did something.
[00:40:11] Mollie Schwartz: Or this year we have a lot of, we went from four sections to like three sections. So. I don't know just this, the school is changing and so the way that you might need to teach or do something might be changing as well.
[00:40:23] Leanna O'Brien: Yeah, I would say also just if you have also that tricky class, which Bryson if we're going to talk about, you know, like, how to do tricky classes, I'll save that one, but big time.
[00:40:35] Bryson Tarbet: Let's dive in. Yeah, because let's be honest, we all have every once in a while you'll get that grade that it is just It's rough and you just you do your best that year and hope that's gonna be a little better. So Leanna, why don't you get us started talking about what to do when you have a class that doesn't really fit in the mold that you've created.
[00:40:51] Leanna O'Brien: You got it. Uh, so my biggest thing is, um, I, um, my first teaching job was in an inner city school where there [00:41:00] was a lot of the community was in, um, a situation that was tougher and this was true before COVID and it was especially true, true after COVID. And really making the steps to ensure that my classroom was a safe place was always top priority, but making sure that I was setting high expectations for each individual classroom.
[00:41:25] Leanna O'Brien: And they might look totally different than a, than a different classroom, right? But making sure that those expectations were always high. and always growing. And the way that I did that was primarily by finding what they wanted and by really using that as a, not what we're starting with, but as an end goal.
[00:41:45] Leanna O'Brien: So say I had a really tough class that was for one reason or another hesitant to work with literacy skills, right? But I knew that they wanted to play the ukuleles, right? I was very blessed. I was [00:42:00] able to get ukuleles from a grant program. My students saw me get those ukuleles. My students wrote letters about why they wanted ukuleles, and it was a really tough class.
[00:42:11] Leanna O'Brien: And I was able to say, okay, so we have these. Look at them. Aren't they beautiful? We worked so hard to get those. We need to make sure that a we have the skills and be we have our minds in the right place where when we are able to use these, they are kept exactly like how they are by us using it the right way.
[00:42:34] Leanna O'Brien: And so my students and I, we went through this lovely little program where they had to show me it. Every step that they were going to be responsible. They were going to be using their listening skills. They were going to be working towards the ukuleles. And we started with boomwhackers. And then from boomwhackers, we grew a little bit to bells.
[00:42:51] Leanna O'Brien: And then from bells, we grew a little bit each time, just making those expectations higher and higher. So that by the time I gave them the ukuleles, it was not [00:43:00] only were their bodies, right. And their literacy skills were way up, but they thought that this was like this Holy grail. Of like when I handed it to them, they're, they're holding it like, like a baby, you know, it mattered to them.
[00:43:13] Leanna O'Brien: It, it, it mattered to them in a way that so much of what I had done didn't, you know, I, I had used bucket drumming and, and the, um, because I didn't build up to it because I had just started it because I thought, oh, this, they'll be so engaged. My buckets were destroyed a lot of times. because they weren't using it the right way.
[00:43:33] Leanna O'Brien: They, they didn't care about it. I didn't make it a big deal, but the ukuleles, I made a massive deal. And I, yeah, the expectations were through the roof and my students rose to meet it. It was really, really impactful.
[00:43:48] Bryson Tarbet: My level three professor talked a lot about sometimes have, you know, sometimes you're just going to have to dangle the carrot and I think it goes back to, you know, what Dr.
[00:43:57] Bryson Tarbet: Stafford's presentation yesterday was all about, which is [00:44:00] sometimes you're going to have intrinsic motivation and that's great. Sometimes you're going to have to use extrinsic motivation. How can we find the balance? How can we use extrinsic to lead into intrinsic? I think sometimes we get really stuck on trying to only create intrinsic when the reality is.
[00:44:15] Bryson Tarbet: Sometimes we're going to have to use extrinsic. We don't want to use it as a crutch, but sometimes that's what we're going to use. Kind of like what Leanna was saying to get us closer and closer, raising those expectations as we go. Um, but yeah, I think that's, that's a great answer, Leanna. I'm not, I guess I don't have too much more to add to that.
[00:44:33] Bryson Tarbet: Molly?
[00:44:33] Mollie Schwartz: Yeah, with classes like that, I always like to like celebrate the small wins and kind of show them what they're doing. So I'll take a video of them, maybe sometimes they don't even know that I'm recording, and um, it's just for them to see of course, but then I'll play it back and be like Oh my goodness, look at what we did or have them reflect.
[00:44:51] Mollie Schwartz: Like, how did you feel when we just accomplished this and, you know, okay, so let's take that feeling and try to keep going with [00:45:00] other instruments or other activities and music, because it felt so good to, you know, accomplish something together and feel that way when we, you know, had that teamwork or did something as a group.
[00:45:12] Jennifer Bailey: Well, and the other thing I would like to just offer is that sometimes we get so focused on the difficult class and it's really just a difficult child that is setting the whole class off. And what I have really worked hard over the last, well, post pandemic, because this is where I'm really seeing it, is to not focus on the child that is struggling in my room and, and, and what I mean is not.
[00:45:36] Jennifer Bailey: to not focus or give opportunities to that child, but to not engage in the power struggle to not force things that they're not ready to do in my room and to really put my focus on everyone else in the room. And what I found is that those kids that really struggle or very disruptive in the learning when I'm not engaged, like, you know, if I have a child that just needs to sit in the back of the room and color or play with a fidget, or sit in [00:46:00] a chair and hold a stuffed animal or whatever, whatever it is that brings them comfort.
[00:46:03] Jennifer Bailey: Cause it's different for every kid and it's different for every grade level. To what I do know is that even if they're not actively engaged in the music making that's happening in the room, that they're listening. And sometimes my most difficult kids that seem like they're only there to disrupt the learning are learning the most in the room and that when I'm not Trying to control the situation suddenly they know every answer and then I can celebrate.
[00:46:27] Jennifer Bailey: Oh my gosh, I love that Could you come share what you just said? come share that with everybody else and that gives them a moment of personal pride too so that the rest of the class gets to see like That kiddo is really smart, and that kiddo knows this and can do things in the room, and it brings them into the lesson a little bit differently.
[00:46:46] Jennifer Bailey: Um, so that's where I focus, um, uh, with those kids.
[00:46:53] Bryson Tarbet: Yeah, and I, I think, you know, this is a panel on curriculum development, not necessarily classroom management, but I think one of the [00:47:00] things that we can do when we're developing our curriculum is setting up our lessons in a way that allows qualities of good classroom management to happen.
[00:47:10] Bryson Tarbet: So that's a good, good segue, um, to talk about the way that our individual lessons look, you know, I think we do a decent job sometimes talking about the overall, you know, macro curriculum. Um, but I also, also think there is something really good to be said about having. Some consistency within a lesson.
[00:47:29] Bryson Tarbet: I'm not saying you have to always do the same order of things. Um, but let's be honest, kids like routine. Um, and that can be really helpful and it just makes our, our planning a lot easier. You know, when you, when you have kind of a specific, you know, template of what a lesson looks like. So I'd be very curious to see if any of you have anything to share about, you know, how you, you know, do you have any sort of a specific, um, You know, flow that you follow and how you kind of ended up there and what, what you [00:48:00] noticed once you started using it consistently.
[00:48:04] Leanna O'Brien: Yeah, no, I'll start that if that's okay. Um, so my routine is, um, it's really similar if we're talking kindergarten through fourth grade. When I get into my middle school levels, it changes to be, um, have a lot more independence to it. Um, But for kindergarten through fourth grade, my routine is basically the same with all different things, but basically the same.
[00:48:26] Leanna O'Brien: My students all come in, I get them in in a moving way. Obviously again, my main principles are all about movement. So that's what a lot of my routine is going to have. But my students come in in a moving way, whether that's with steady beat in their feet, repeating my rhythms, whether that is devising their own body percussion on their way in.
[00:48:45] Leanna O'Brien: That's how my students started off. The second that I get there, all I say is this Is your steady beat? And then they go off. It's great. And because it's part of my routine, because we've done this since the beginning of the year, because we've done this for years and years, my students know what to expect.
[00:48:58] Leanna O'Brien: They come and they go, Miss, I [00:49:00] thought of a new, of a new body percussion. You want to watch? I'm like, you got it. Let's go off. All right. So it's a great time. That's how they come in. Right from there, we get started with a scarf dance. Each one of my classes, kindergarten through now fifth grade, because my fifth graders wouldn't leave it, let it go.
[00:49:13] Leanna O'Brien: I thought I was going to get them away from them. Wouldn't let it go. We always start with a scarf dance. From there, we do a transition, calm our bodies down. It usually only takes me the first five minutes of classes, right? Again, that's because I built it up year over year. Right after that, we go into some literacy building skills based on what I know my main chunk is going to have.
[00:49:32] Leanna O'Brien: So that's either going to be a coming up to the smart board. Um, you know, getting those kind of like smaller ones where not everybody's moving, but I have individuals coming up. We're working on those skills that I know we're gonna need for the main chunk. Usually in between, we have another movement break because that usually meant a lot of talking for us.
[00:49:51] Leanna O'Brien: We do a quick movement break. We go into our main chunk, which is either going to be some instruments. It's a story that connects to whatever fundamentals we're talking about. [00:50:00] Some composition time, uh, something like that, where it's like the main chunk where it might involve a little more sitting right after that as a movement break.
[00:50:09] Leanna O'Brien: And then closing is some sort of assessment gathering, which I also managed to do through moving. So that's my routine as far as, uh, kindergarten through fourth grade. And I'm pretty consistent with it because my students expect it, but it's never boring for them. that they only have me either once, some years, I've had them twice a week.
[00:50:30] Leanna O'Brien: This is never boring for them. Um, and it always gives them the expectations. They know how to succeed in my classroom because they're so used to the structure of things, not necessarily what we're going to do in that structure, but the structure.
[00:50:49] Mollie Schwartz: My presentation that's later touches on some of this, so I won't talk too much about it. You can watch that in, I don't know, an hour or so, whenever that is. But I definitely [00:51:00] agree with the consistency, the routines. I always, my students walk in and they can look on the board. For the younger students, it's usually a picture of if I want them to sit.
[00:51:09] Mollie Schwartz: Sometimes it's like a picture of someone just laying down. So then for the younger kids, they know, okay, we're going to lay down. Sometimes I'll have like the calm music playing. I call it the cool off the sweat from PE time because a lot of times we transition like they have music first or they have PE first.
[00:51:25] Mollie Schwartz: So we say we needed to just lay down cool off the sweat. And so they can look up on the board for what to do, like where to sit. Sometimes for the older kids, they have a step spot and they have a carpet spot. So depending on what our, our next activity is, they can look up and see what I want them to do.
[00:51:44] Mollie Schwartz: And then, um, at least for the older kids, something that they can do while they're waiting, like if I'm checking in with the teacher, if I need to switch some instruments around, sometimes I have like a, uh, um, would you rather question where they answer with their body? So stand, if [00:52:00] your answer is this, sit, if your answer is the other thing.
[00:52:04] Mollie Schwartz: It might be like a turn and talk to the people around you question. It might be just a silly meme or a music weird but true fact. So something to engage the older kids so that they can, you know, read it or have a something to guide a conversation with the people around them. And I know routine is great, but I'm also thinking at the same time that I don't always love to do the exact same structure every single day, because I think it's important to have a variety of like, a project or a listening activity and, um, you know, just different things, at least for my older kids, they don't always want to do the exact same thing.
[00:52:45] Mollie Schwartz: And it depends on your school and where you're at, but just having variety in, you know, games, projects, um, movement things and whatnot. For the younger kids, I do, like you just said, a very consistent, like, okay, [00:53:00] we have our welcome songs. Now we stand up, we do our movement. And now we sit back down, we do a story.
[00:53:05] Mollie Schwartz: But as the kids get older, I find that they, they really like the variety of projects and games and all of that.
[00:53:15] Bryson Tarbet: Yeah. And I, I think really it's kind of what you said is there's going to be a time where the consistent structure is going to work and there's going to be times or with groups of students that it isn't super great. Um, I'll be the same thing. You know, I. My lesson structure, K4, was usually pretty typical.
[00:53:31] Bryson Tarbet: Um, sometimes fourth grade would get a little weird when we had a recorder, but even within that there was still a lot of consistent structure. Um, but where I was, you know, fifth and sixth grade was a different school. And that's also where we had like a new two thirds of the district coming in and all mixing together.
[00:53:45] Bryson Tarbet: So that's where we kind of mixed it up, up the structure a little bit. I did kind of like what Molly was saying, uh, some more project based things, or a little bit more flexibility in the structure. So, we only have a few minutes. left, which is wild because I feel like we've just been here for a few [00:54:00] minutes.
[00:54:00] Bryson Tarbet: Um, so I would love to be able to, um, go around and see if each one of you can answer this question. Um, the question is, what is one piece of advice that you would give to someone if you were, uh, creating your curriculum? Or what is the, you know, if you had to boil down all the things that you could talk about about curriculum development, what would you?
[00:54:23] Bryson Tarbet: Want someone to do
[00:54:25] Mollie Schwartz: I would go in any
[00:54:26] Bryson Tarbet: order. So feel free.
[00:54:27] Mollie Schwartz: Yeah at the end of the school day You know, sometimes I sit down I go what just happened like, okay. What what did we do at 8 a. m? I don't remember but if you just sit down and like, you know cool down a little bit after the crazy day But take a few minutes to just go back and write what you did what you liked.
[00:54:49] Mollie Schwartz: Um, that way, you know, next year, you can go back and be like, Oh, yeah, I wrote down that we really like this. Or if you've already created slides and slideshows, like I [00:55:00] have this ongoing slideshow for everything that I've done in fifth grade for the last few years. Um, Like the other day I was like, oh, we're going to do Sasha.
[00:55:07] Mollie Schwartz: So I just like did a search for Sasha within my slides, found the slide, copied it to the bottom, which is like where we are at. And it was already good to go. Like I had the video embedded. I had the, the words up. Um, I had the like partner rules, like the, how you can find a partner respectfully. And I went, okay, that's all done, ready to go.
[00:55:26] Mollie Schwartz: And that's because I had created that, you know, a year or two before. So just. Yes, you might take a while to create certain things, but just know that future you will be glad that you did that if you are saving things. Um, one of my first years of teaching, I had like all these Google folders and things, and I thought that was the best way to, uh, kind of, um, I don't know, organize my things, but I realized that then I was clicking into this and clicking into that, okay, where was this and where was that and I [00:56:00] realized that just one ongoing slideshow was the best for me and to go back and look at certain slides that I had already created and just use those again.
[00:56:12] Bryson Tarbet: Leanna. Or Jennifer, go ahead, Jennifer.
[00:56:16] Jennifer Bailey: I'll go ahead. Um, I would say first, keep it simple. I love, Bryson, your idea of, of, and I feel like we're kind of kindred spirits in the way. Your first year or two, do K1, do two, two, three, do four, five. As you get to know your students, you're going to start to parse those grades into their own specific curricula and your concepts and skills that you're going to teach at those grade levels.
[00:56:40] Jennifer Bailey: But go ahead and keep it simple and, and. and recycle material from one grade level to the next. Um, give yourself grace. I remember my first year of teaching. I felt like I was sometimes one day ahead of the students. I would leave that day, reflect on my practice, go home and practice and try to learn new songs and new things to [00:57:00] do with the kids.
[00:57:01] Jennifer Bailey: And, um, I think just giving yourself grace that you are going to make mistakes. And the thing is, is we We know from working with students, mistakes is where the magic happens. Mistakes is where you take time and reflect. When I do something well, when I teach a great lesson, I'm like, yeah, me. But when I make a mistake or a lesson crashes and burns, I go back and I want to figure out why.
[00:57:24] Jennifer Bailey: And that is where the magic happens. So be okay if things don't go okay. And, um, give yourself grace. And the last thing I would say to you is Find your community, find your people, whether it's this community that Bryson has built up or, um, working with a certain approach, find people who are going to support you, who are going to give you ideas, who are going to share lessons and share activities with you, and that you can talk to, um, honestly about what's happening in the classroom because We're all as music teachers in our own little bubble in our [00:58:00] buildings and finding other people, other music teachers to talk to and share, um, our, our thoughts and frustrations and successes and all of those things are going to be lifesaving to you in those first couple of years.
[00:58:12] Bryson Tarbet: Yeah. Brianna, bring us home.
[00:58:15] Leanna O'Brien: Right. You got it. You got it. I would say that. Find your people. Find some sort of organization structure that's going to work for you because there are going to be so many things that you go, Oh my goodness, I completely forgot about that. But also find the professional development like Bryson's, right?
[00:58:32] Leanna O'Brien: Like these kinds of things that happen because a lot of times your school will not be providing that for you. And, and maybe that was just my personal experience, but I know that for a lot of my PD days I was stuck in rooms. of with math teachers talking about math. And I'm just sitting there going, this has nothing to do with me.
[00:58:51] Leanna O'Brien: So find the resources, find the people and find the hours of professional development that are around you, that [00:59:00] are going to matter to you. Music educators, educators in general, we are constant learners. So just keep on finding the ways to keep on growing, giving yourself that grace and becoming the wonderful music teachers that we are.
[00:59:14] Bryson Tarbet: Well, thank you all for joining us for our keynote. We appreciate you sharing your time and your wonderful expertise. If you're hanging on the chat, thanks for joining us live or if you're catching the replay, hey, we see you too. Uh, we are going to take a little bit of a break and head for lunch. Um, we will see you in just a little bit here at 1 30 Eastern time for our next session.
[00:59:36] Bryson Tarbet: And in case nobody has told you lately, thank you so much for making a difference in the lives of the students that you teach.
